Yep. Not just Europe, & not just the late medieval period. I’m looking at current conflicts, but I know where you’re going.
Well, I believe I see where you’re going anyway… just to qualify the above statement.
Hamas attacks Israel
- Thread starter Serryah
- Start date
Well, I believe I see where you’re going anyway… just to qualify the above statement.
Yep, from several different directions, almost simultaneously. Good times.
Are the Israelis peaceful and not antagonistic?
Why on Earth should they be given a pass?
Why will others end and this wont?
SOVEREIGNTY, ability to borrow cash from banks and the ability to openly by and sell arms. Does Palestinian have that?
Are the Chinese? India? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Russia? Ukraine? Etc…should any of them be given a pass? Regarding being peaceful and not antagonistic or corrupt?
Sovereignty for a Hamas run Palestine is what’s being sought…& alluded to in “our” Canadian parliament recently. Do the Palestinians deserve that (?) or a Palestine that they can run themselves? Don’t they deserve that “if” that’s what they want? After decades of UNRWA indoctrination would that even be what they want?
I’m sure Hamas would love a sovereign Hamas run Palestine where they can openly borrow money and buy arms. They could become a fashion statement of the open woke left (like the Ninja Turtles of these gone by) who, if they ever visited a Hamas run Palestine, could be promptly hung or thrown off of buildings. Good times. Elections optional.
None of them get away with the things Israel does. They get sanctioned. Israel? No fucking way!
So we agree. Palestine isnt sovereign. Why not? Its not because of Hamas. Do Palestinians need Israel to babysit them? Have they been given the chance to be sovereign, develope a social structure, create industry and participate in international trade, travel freely, access education, health care or any of things you or I take for granted?
Why does Hamas exist?
The UN loves them!! I’m sure sanctions are coming regardless of what happens in Gaza at this point.
Because they aren’t a country? They, at every opportunity so far…. Turn down the chance to be one. What are (or will be?) Palestines borders? What’s now Jordan but was Trans-Jordan?
Do Palestinians need a babysitter in Gaza? Have they decided themselves to play well with their neighbours? Does Egypt “Have” to babysit Gaza’s southern border?
Nope, why not? The travel freely etc… portion of your questions above.
Why does ISIL? ISIS? The Muslim Brotherhood? Boko Haram? The Taliban? Hezbollah? A dozen more? What is the commonality here?
The religion of peace? Other more extreme versions of the religion of peace attacking those that aren’t extreme enough with their peace?
They do? If so why does Israel have more UNHRC infractions than any other country on earth or off earth for that matter?
Who doesn’t want them to be sovereign? Hamas or Israel?
Egypt, a sovereign nation has an agreement with other sovereign nations and a Right to protect its border. They dont have to kiss Israeli ass if they dont want to.
When have ISIS, ISIL, Taliban or Boko Haram been attacked and oppressed by Israel?Why does ISIL? ISIS? The Muslim Brotherhood? Boko Haram? The Taliban? Hezbollah? A dozen more? What is the commonality here?
The religion of peace? Other more extreme versions of the religion of peace attacking those that aren’t extreme enough with their peace?
Religion of Peace? Do you mean the Christians that are in Gaza, West Bank Israel and Lebanon that support/are in Hamas and Hezbollah? You are fully aware that Lebanon is a Christian run country arent you?
Sorry, I was being facetious. Sarcasm. What you are stating is what I was alluding to. Before my time here, I hear references to using the colour purple, etc…& I’ve never seen it done but I get the punchline.
Israel offered it to them many times (land, territory, a split of what they’ve got), usually after wars where the Palestinians (and their neighbours) lost against Israel, but it was never good enough, regardless of where the borders would be, because Israel would still exist. Israel having a peaceful neighbour that wouldn’t be constantly attacking them? You think they wouldn’t want that?
Hamas would love Palestine to be a sovereign nation as long as they (Hamas) were in charge. That’s their goal…& as long as Israel didn’t exist.
You bet! Same with Israel. Saudi Arabia and Israel were about to enter an agreement…but…Iran through Hamas…Oct 7th, etc…why Oct 7th? Why then?
You were asking about the existence of Hamas, being a splinter group of the Muslim brotherhood. I asked about the existence of several other groups, none of which have been oppressed by Israel, to the best of my knowledge…& yet they still exist…with a commonality. Go figure?
Why does the Muslim Brotherhood predate Israeli sovereignty (?) that Hamas is a splinter group of?
Christians were “once” a majority in Lebanon, at one point. Who actually controls Lebanon? Their Prime Minister is a Christian? Their speaker of the house is a Christian? Hezbollah are Christians? 70-ish% of Lebanese in Lebanon are Christians? Maybe at one point (except the Hezbollah thing) the above was true.
Not only do some Christians in the West Bank, Israel, & Lebanon support Hamas, etc… but also some university students in Europe and North America…& apparently the majority of the Canadian Parliament.
Because there are a majority of Jew haters on the UNHRC kangaroo court.
Why would Israel offer them Statehood? Is it up to Israel to decide? When there was a chance for Israel and Palestine to co-exist why didnt Israel seize the opportunity instead of taking more and more land by force? Did their offer include exiting the West Bank and Jerusalem? What did Israel offer to the Christians? Why can Israel go to war with Arabs but Arabs cant go to war with Israel?
MBS didnt back out. Nutlessyahud and his Russian cronies did.
Their existence has nothing to do with Israel. Zero. Zilch. Zip zant doodley squat. There are no commonalities beyond Sunni. Muzzie brotherhood doesnt want anything to do with Hamas. Bringing them up is moot.You were asking about the existence of Hamas, being a splinter group of the Muslim brotherhood. I asked about the existence of several other groups, none of which have been oppressed by Israel, to the best of my knowledge…& yet they still exist…with a commonality. Go figure?
It like blaming Britain for American stupidity because America was once English.
Lebanon's constitution demands Christian leadership. Hezbollah isnt exclusively Muzzies and they aren’t anti semites.
Zionism isnt Judaism and Judaism isnt Zionism.
I’ll have to respond when it’s quiet. I’m currently being interrupted at least 3 times per sentence just trying to read the above.
Can you have statehood without land? Without defined borders of some type for an independent nation? Wouldn’t they (Israel) like to not be constantly attacked by many of their neighbouring nations?
Wouldn’t Israel & what will be Palestine (and someone hopefully other than Hamas) representing Palestine have to agree on a division of ground somehow for Palestine to become a sovereign nation of some form eventually?
Realignment plan - Wikipedia
Peel Commission - Wikipedia
Oslo Accords - Wikipedia
That ended up being taken from Jordan (not Palestine) in the 1967 war? That West Bank that to Jordan (the country) was their land West of the banks of the Jordan (river) and the Dead Sea? That “West” Bank? The same war where Gaza was taken from Egypt (not Palestine)?
What have the Arab Palestinians, the PLO, Hamas, & friends…offered the Christians? Isn’t it usually the Arabs of one flavour or another going to war (& breaking the previous ceasefire) against Israel? Then Israel reacting?
(HAMAS formed in late 1987 at the beginning of the first Palestinian intifada (uprising). Its roots are in the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, and it is supported by a robust sociopolitical structure inside the Palestinian Territories)
National Counterterrorism Center | Groups
Contains many features across the full range of issues pertaining to international terrorism: terrorist groups, wanted terrorists, and technical pages on various threat-related topics
www.dni.gov
Was America English (a colony of England) in both of our lifetimes?
So that’s why Lebanon has a Muslim prime Minister, & a Muslim speaker of parliament, & a 70% (ok, 69.something%) Muslim population. Doesn’t Lebanon’s constitution demand that both Muslims and Christians are “represented,” but not lead by Christians?
Hezbollah is a Shiite Muslim political party and militant group based in Lebanon, where its extensive security apparatus, political organization, and social services network have fostered its reputation as “a state within a state.” Founded in the chaos of the fifteen-year Lebanese Civil War, the Iran-backed group is driven by its opposition to Israel and its resistance to Western influence in the Middle East.
What Is Hezbollah?
Military experience gained from fighting in Syria’s civil war and decades of clashes with Israel has strengthened the Iran-backed group, but politically, its clout among Lebanon’s populace may be wan…
www.cfr.org
Hamas aren’t Palestinians…wait…Palestinians aren’t Hamas, but Hamas are Palestinians. I had to check the program.
What Is Hamas?
The Palestinian militant group struggled to govern the Gaza Strip before launching a surprise attack on Israel in 2023. Now facing Israel’s military campaign to destroy it, Hamas’s future is in doubt…
www.cfr.org
How is exiting The West Bank and Golan Heights coming along or Israel invaded them fair and square?
Your focus is out of skew.Can you have statehood without land? Without defined borders of some type for an independent nation? Wouldn’t they (Israel) like to not be constantly attacked by many of their neighbouring nations?
Wouldn’t Israel & what will be Palestine (and someone hopefully other than Hamas) representing Palestine have to agree on a division of ground somehow for Palestine to become a sovereign nation of some form eventually?
Which time? The one in 1948-1949 where Israel was attacked by its neighbours? Or the one in 1967 where Israel had to fight seven of its neighbours (three nations directly & the troops from four others) simultaneously…?Realignment plan - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The one war between 1967-1970 where Israel was being attacked by only three of its neighbours (& the USSR & the PLO)? Or the war in 1973 where Israel only had to fight against just two of its neighbours (& a coalition of several others)? Or the 1982 war only against one of its neighbours (& the PLO)?Peel Commission - Wikipedia
Or during the war between 1987-1993? Or the war between 2000-2005? Or the one in 2006? Or during the couple weeks in 2008-2009 between Israel & Hamas? During the war in 2012 or 2014 or the ongoing goat rodeo since 2013 between Israel and Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, & other Iranian backed militias?Oslo Accords - Wikipedia
That ended up being taken from Jordan (not Palestine) in the 1967 war? That West Bank that to Jordan (the country) was their land West of the banks of the Jordan (river) and the Dead Sea? That “West” Bank? The same war where Gaza was taken from Egypt (not Palestine)?
What have the Arab Palestinians, the PLO, Hamas, & friends…offered the Christians? Isn’t it usually the Arabs of one flavour or another going to war (& breaking the previous ceasefire) against Israel? Then Israel reacting?
(HAMAS formed in late 1987 at the beginning of the first Palestinian intifada (uprising). Its roots are in the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, and it is supported by a robust sociopolitical structure inside the Palestinian Territories)
National Counterterrorism Center | Groups
Contains many features across the full range of issues pertaining to international terrorism: terrorist groups, wanted terrorists, and technical pages on various threat-related topicswww.dni.gov
Was America English (a colony of England) in both of our lifetimes?
So that’s why Lebanon has a Muslim prime Minister, & a Muslim speaker of parliament, & a 70% (ok, 69.something%) Muslim population. Doesn’t Lebanon’s constitution demand that both Muslims and Christians are “represented,” but not lead by Christians?
Hezbollah is a Shiite Muslim political party and militant group based in Lebanon, where its extensive security apparatus, political organization, and social services network have fostered its reputation as “a state within a state.” Founded in the chaos of the fifteen-year Lebanese Civil War, the Iran-backed group is driven by its opposition to Israel and its resistance to Western influence in the Middle East.
What Is Hezbollah?
Military experience gained from fighting in Syria’s civil war and decades of clashes with Israel has strengthened the Iran-backed group, but politically, its clout among Lebanon’s populace may be wan…
Hamas aren’t Palestinians…wait…Palestinians aren’t Hamas, but Hamas are Palestinians. I had to check the program.
What Is Hamas?
The Palestinian militant group struggled to govern the Gaza Strip before launching a surprise attack on Israel in 2023. Now facing Israel’s military campaign to destroy it, Hamas’s future is in doubt…
Are you 100% sure youre on the right side of this history in the making?
Pop "Likud KKK" into your favourite search engine...
Try this too. Just replace Jew with Palestinian and Europe with Middle East.
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Yes, they're winning BUT who replaces Hamas is an excellent question. One would hope that better minds than mine have the solution. One can only hope that it won't be a worse outcome. But with Israel, I think they (hopefully) will come up with a solution. They're smart & more practical than the rest of the West so one can only hope.
I’ve read a few articles now this morning from the ex-Mosad chief. I’ve also watched and read and generally followed the news on this latest breaking of the cease-fire between Hamas/Palestinians and Israel.
Both the Israelis & Palestinians have a right to exist. Neither side are 100% innocent. The whole area is a knotted ball of…something or another.
(Taking a step back, in Israel, about 20% of the population are Muslims & about 2% are Christians. The religious makeup of Palestine seems to be about 97% muslims and about 3% Christians…so about 0% Jewish)
I watched the Cell & GoPro video from Oct 7th, and I’ve watched the reaction to it. I’ve watched the protests and counter protests since and about Oct 7th. On Oct 7th, in this very thread, I stated the following:
Since then, I’ve taken a bit of a crash course in this tangled web, & only one side, seems to be supporting outright genocide, while the other isn’t.
This is a land dispute, cloaked in religion. It appears that Israel makes offers, & Palestine (through the PLO, or Hamas, etc…) rejects them, with respect to this tstate solution.
Only one side seems to give a shit about its own people, and only one side seems to not give a shit about his own people.
Why was Palestine under Israeli military occupation since 1967? What happened in 1967? Why does talk of this two state solution always come back to potentially pre-1967 borders? Out of all of the wars fought by and against Israel… why 1967?
Six-Day War - Wikipedia
Until the above war in 1967, below is what is being claimed as Palestine today.
Occupation of the Gaza Strip by the United Arab Republic - Wikipedia
Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
That (above) is based upon this:
Green Line (Israel) - Wikipedia
…& the Sinai peninsula, & exiting Gaza in 2005, etc…Every concession or attempt at one seems to result in another broken cease-fire.
Realignment plan - Wikipedia
Who’s on the right side of history? I really don’t know….but it doesn’t seem like Hamas that’s representing Palestinians in their own way. In all honesty, whenever I think of this conflict, I pictured the video footage from October 7th.
So youre cool with race based laws against Israeli Arabs?I’ve read a few articles now this morning from the ex-Mosad chief. I’ve also watched and read and generally followed the news on this latest breaking of the cease-fire between Hamas/Palestinians and Israel.
Both the Israelis & Palestinians have a right to exist. Neither side are 100% innocent. The whole area is a knotted ball of…something or another.
(Taking a step back, in Israel, about 20% of the population are Muslims & about 2% are Christians. The religious makeup of Palestine seems to be about 97% muslims and about 3% Christians…so about 0% Jewish)
I watched the Cell & GoPro video from Oct 7th, and I’ve watched the reaction to it. I’ve watched the protests and counter protests since and about Oct 7th. On Oct 7th, in this very thread, I stated the following:
Since then, I’ve taken a bit of a crash course in this tangled web, & only one side, seems to be supporting outright genocide, while the other isn’t.
This is a land dispute, cloaked in religion. It appears that Israel makes offers, & Palestine (through the PLO, or Hamas, etc…) rejects them, with respect to this tstate solution.
Only one side seems to give a shit about its own people, and only one side seems to not give a shit about his own people.
Why was Palestine under Israeli military occupation since 1967? What happened in 1967? Why does talk of this two state solution always come back to potentially pre-1967 borders? Out of all of the wars fought by and against Israel… why 1967?
Six-Day War - Wikipedia
Until the above war in 1967, below is what is being claimed as Palestine today.
Occupation of the Gaza Strip by the United Arab Republic - Wikipedia
Jordanian annexation of the West Bank - Wikipedia
That (above) is based upon this:
Then as now, a Palestinian state can only be established through compromise and mutual recognition. The refusal by the Arab population of the mandate territory to accept Resolution 181 demonstrated that they were not interested in establishing their own state if it meant allowing the existence of a Jewish state.Green Line (Israel) - Wikipedia
…& the Sinai peninsula, & exiting Gaza in 2005, etc…Every concession or attempt at one seems to result in another broken cease-fire.
Realignment plan - Wikipedia
Who’s on the right side of history? I really don’t know….but it doesn’t seem like Hamas that’s representing Palestinians in their own way. In all honesty, whenever I think of this conflict, I pictured the video footage from October 7th.
Are they? Really? Bibi and Lukid are loved by all and are straight shooters? Israel has never been more united?