eBikes or eScooters

[Ron in Regina]

It’s a weird topic. I’ve had a few encounters, and a couple of them are definitely not positive.

It’s kind of a confusing topic, legally anyway. What are your opinions on the subject?

Paris votes to ban rental e-scooters — BBC News

Almost 90% of votes cast favour banning the scooters in a city that pioneered them.

apple.news

 

[Ron in Regina]

I remember reading recently a news story about either E bikes or E scooters, and I think it was here in Regina (had to make sure that my text to talk and spellchecker didn’t change the name of the city I reside in to something else) that they were going to be allowed…. But not on the roads and only on the sidewalks…. And only up to a maximum speed of 25 km/hr (16mph). I will have to do a hunt for a link.

Regina executive committee approves shared e-scooter program​

Regina / 980 CJME
Daniel Reech
Mar 29, 2023 | 4:19 PM

Regina executive committee approves shared e-scooter program

People in Regina might see rental electric scooters around the city starting this summer. During Wednesday's e...

www.cjme.com

(Then, in certain areas, they will have to go slower. I think it had to do with the downtown business/government area)

I know that locally in our city, bicycles with a wheel diameter of 400mm or less (so about 16”) are allowed on the sidewalks (like children learning to ride a bicycle) but anything with wheels bigger than that Has to be on the road way and not on the sidewalks. E-Bikes & E-Scooters all seem to have wheels smaller than a diameter of 16” (400mm) so they get a pass there.

Also the rules governing motorcycles, etc… have a definitional division for things with a motor above or below 50cc’s, and with E-Bikes or E-Scooters having an electric motor they have no cubic centimetres of displacement… so they get a pass there.
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Anyway, from the above link from March 29th, 2023, it states that “People in Regina might see rental electric scooters around the city starting this summer.” & then there’s this photo from October of 2022 from downtown Regina:

So could see where this is confusing legally anyway….& what I am reading now conflicts with what I heard on the radio or read a few weeks ago:

During Wednesday’s executive committee meeting, a shared electric kick scooter program was approved by a vote of 8-0. Councillors Landon Mohl, Cheryl Stadnichuk and Dan LeBlanc were away for the vote.

Last fall, SGI gave Saskatchewan municipalities the ability to decide whether or not they wanted e-scooters.

The city will grant permits for up to two providers to fund and operate the program. The agenda for the executive committee meeting said the program would cost the city $25,000 per year, but that would be recovered from the companies that get the permits.

“Permittees will also each be required to provide the City with a $10,000 refundable security deposit, which the City will use to address any costs incurred by the City for damage to city infrastructure, remedying safety concerns, and the removal or storage of E-Scooters as needed,” the agenda said.

The program would allow a total of 500 e-scooters to be available for short-term use in the city starting as early as July. The program would last until October 2024, though the agenda stated those timelines are tentative and subject to change.

The e-scooters WILL be allowed to operate ON bike lanes, park and multi-use pathways and roads with a speed limit of 50 kilometres per hour or less. They WON’T be allowed on sidewalks unless in specific circumstances to connect to other pathways.

The program also would BAN ALL PRIVATE e-scooters from operating within city limits for its duration.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Coun. Jason Mancinelli motioned for an amendment that would remove the prohibition of private e-scooters from the program, but it was defeated 5-3.

“I think there is something fundamentally unfair about folks who have already purchased (e-scooters) who are using them (who) likely will be using them then illegally in the summer because they’ll see this bylaw and say, ‘Well, we can actually use them in the city,’ ” Coun. Andrew Stevens said during the meeting.

“And then there’ll be a backlash saying, ‘Well, now we have to go to these two monopolies and access them at their cost after we’ve purchased them.’ I think there’s greater risk with that approach.”

City manager Niki Anderson said private e-scooters might be allowed in the future after council receives feedback for the program.

“This isn’t a pilot; we’re doing it,” she said. “We will come back to you with the learnings through the shared model to also talk about integrating private (e-scooters) the next year.

“So I would say that we have presented all of the information that we have and should council decide that they want administration to move towards both public and private e-scooters in 2023, we could do that.”

EDITOR’S NOTE: This is an amended version of this story, correcting where the e-scooters would be allowed to operate. Ahhhh…OK… the conflict is making a bit more sense now….

 

[harrylee]

Around here an e-scooter is considered the same as a bicycle, I believe. Of course, farmers on tractors, fat guys on lawn tractors in town are a pretty common site too.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Around here an e-scooter is considered the same as a bicycle, I believe. Of course, farmers on tractors, fat guys on lawn tractors in town are a pretty common site too.

What a bicycle considered around there? Is it a vehicle? Governed by what laws? The highway traffic act or municipal bylaws?

 

[petros]

There are different types of scooters Stand (kick scooter) or sit. I wouldn't ride a kick scooter. I'm lazy and don't want to stand.

 

[petros]

What a bicycle considered around there? Is it a vehicle? Governed by what laws? The highway traffic act or municipal bylaws?

A bicycle is a vehicle. An electric bike is motor vehicle.

 

[harrylee]

As far as I know, they must use the edge of the road or bike lanes (I know on none in this area) and follow rules and signs of the road. I haven't seen a license plate on an e-scooter so don't think they need one. Googled....

Owning an Electric Bike in Canada is easy. These vehicles are also known as power-assisted bicycles, electric scooters, e-bikes, and e-scooters, and the laws for them are very similar to a traditional bicycle. They require no license, plates, or insurance to own or operate.

But also this just for Ont.....

Electric kick-style scooters (e-scooters)

Learn about using an e-scooter in Ontario and how to participate in the pilot program.

www.ontario.ca

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

There is no reason these should not be subject to rules of the road, liscences and insurance regulations. If a motor bike is required, so should an e-bike. And i also say the same for bicycles.

 

[Ron in Regina]

There is no reason these should not be subject to rules of the road, liscences and insurance regulations. If a motor bike is required, so should an e-bike. And i also say the same for bicycles.

My first encounter with E bikes, was on a foot path in the city of Regina down by the University, as I was travelling around the lakes, walking my dogs several years ago.


I was circling one of the lakes, clockwise and head past the university, a block or two before I was just about to cross a bridge over the creek going north.


Behind me, I heard somebody yell, “get out of the way!” and when I looked over my shoulder, they were two E bikes coming at speed full out about 100 feet from me. E bikes, don’t make any noise except for the sound of the tires on the foot path.


I had the choice of going through a barricade out onto the Ring Road (60mph traffic) or getting a run down or tangled up with my two dogs (each one on their own leash, and almost 300 pounds between the two of them), or going straight down the embankment about 2 feet from the bridge into the creek.

We took option C. In that split second to make a decision, It was the lesser of all evils at that point in time. Wasn’t happy about it though. We went down the bank into the water as the E bikes past where we were standing at speed within about a second or two.

 

[pgs]

My first encounter with E bikes, was on a foot path in the city of Regina down by the University, as I was travelling around the lakes, walking my dogs several years ago.
View attachment 17812

I was circling one of the lakes, clockwise and head past the university, a block or two before I was just about to cross a bridge over the creek going north.
View attachment 17813

Behind me, I heard somebody yell, “get out of the way!” and when I looked over my shoulder, they were two E bikes coming at speed full out about 100 feet from me. E bikes, don’t make any noise except for the sound of the tires on the foot path.
View attachment 17814

I had the choice of going through a barricade out onto the Ring Road (60mph traffic) or getting a run down or tangled up with my two dogs (each one on their own leash, and almost 300 pounds between the two of them), or going straight down the embankment about 2 feet from the bridge into the creek.
View attachment 17815
We took option C. In that split second to make a decision, It was the lesser of all evils at that point in time. Wasn’t happy about it though. We went down the bank into the water as the E bikes past where we were standing at speed within about a second or two.
View attachment 17816
View attachment 17817
View attachment 17818

That could have just as easily have been idiot bicyclists . They are everywhere in all types of propulsion for semi tractors to roller skates and everything in between .

 

[Dixie Cup]

I use a mobility scooter in the summer to get around & absolutely love it. I use the bike trails as well as the sidewalks and can go approx. 35 km before recharging. I'm able to take my dog for a walk, go shopping, etc.

I wouldn't get an e-bike or an e-scooter because driving one on the street is too dangerous in this city anyway & likely other cities as well. Heck, even regular bikes are dangerous on some roads due to inattention by drivers!! Because I'd never own either one, I have no opinion about licensing and/or insurance. Might be a good idea .... or not.

Unfortunately, can't use it in winter due to snow conditions & battery operation.

 

[55Mercury]

you shoulda knocked those clowns right off their bikes. feckinijitz! you don't go past pedestrians on a narrow path at speed. ya slow tf down so it can be done safely, with respect, not "get out of the way!", but "excuse us, please" works just fine in most cases.

 

[Ron in Regina]

you shoulda knocked those clowns right off their bikes. feckinijitz! you don't go past pedestrians on a narrow path at speed. ya slow tf down so it can be done safely, with respect, not "get out of the way!", but "excuse us, please" works just fine in most cases. There was nowhere to step out of the way at the time about 15 years ago.

What’s an eBike weigh? Add in 200lbs of slob on each one, accelerate those to 30+kms/hour on a 5’ wide trail…with a highway barricade on one side (with 60mph traffic) and a 45° slope down to a creek on the other, while controlling almost 300lbs of dogs on two leashes tying up one of your arms.

I was about 8-10’ south, just before the bridge here. There’s been more infill added to this (many yards of it) since that happened. It was a split second decision.

 

[pgs]

What’s an eBike weigh? Add in 200lbs of slob on each one, accelerate those to 30+kms/hour on a 5’ wide trail…with a highway barricade on one side (with 60mph traffic) and a 45° slope down to a creek on the other, while controlling almost 300lbs of dogs on two leashes tying up one of your arms.
View attachment 17827
I was about 8-10’ south, just before the bridge here. There’s been more infill added to this (many yards of it) since that happened. It was a split second decision.
View attachment 17828

It still comes down to the idiots riding them , not the bike .

 

[harrylee]

It still comes down to the idiots riding them , not the bike .

Hmmmm..that applies to other things too.

 

[Ron in Regina]

It still comes down to the idiots riding them , not the bike .

So with these things requiring no training, licence, insurance, or identifying plates, etc…how do you ‘govern’ the idiots with no ‘legal’ consequences using conflicting rules and throw in obstacles like pedestrians?

If the average body on an Ebike is 180lbs, and the average Ebike is 60lbs, and if they’re actually governed to a maximum speed of only 20mph, the kinetic energy they would transfer to an object they’re hitting turns into something quite impressive.

 

[pgs]

So with these things requiring no training, licence, insurance, or identifying plates, etc…how do you ‘govern’ the idiots with no ‘legal’ consequences using conflicting rules and throw in obstacles like pedestrians?

If the average body on an Ebike is 180lbs, and the average Ebike is 60lbs, and if they’re actually governed to a maximum speed of only 20mph, the kinetic energy they would transfer to an object they’re hitting turns into something quite impressive.

I don’t disagree however a 160 lb idiot on a ten speed can cause lots of damage just as easily .

 

[Ron in Regina]

I don’t disagree however a 160 lb idiot on a ten speed can cause lots of damage just as easily .

Someone on a self-propelled 10lb bicycle might not feels as invulnerable as another on a 60-80lb eBike….but I hear you.

Weirdly, I’m not against eBikes, but I just want to see some rules around them to protect others that share the same space. I am of the same opinion with respect to bicycles.

My Girlfriend has mobility issues, and she has nothing but good experiences personally on eBikes. The one she used was a 3 wheeler for stability, but these are on trails in BC that were about 15 feet wide…not 5-6’ wide like the ones we have in Regina for shared usage.

 

[spaminator]

What looked like a bomb blast on TTC subway was actually an e-bike battery

Author of the article:Joe Warmington
Published Jan 01, 2024 • Last updated 12 hours ago • 4 minute read
A major fire on the TTC on New Years as a result of an e-bike battery overheating resulted in the owner being taken to hospital with non-life-theatening wounds.
A major fire on the TTC on New Years as a result of an e-bike battery overheating resulted in the owner being taken to hospital with non-life-theatening wounds.
It looked like a war zone.


That wasn’t a bomb that went off on a TTC subway car on New Year’s Eve in Toronto. It just looked like it.


Thanks to an overheating battery on an e-bike, Toronto Fire Services firefighters were forced to put out a potentially dangerous fire on board.

Apocalyptic.

“Get out, get out,” you can hear frantic TTC staff yelling to encourage an escape from this massive blaze on a subway car.



The potential for this being much worse was off the charts. An e-bike battery problem on the subway that caused an extensive fire is believed to be a first in the underground. However, there have been many reports of electric battery fires in other venues, from homes to parking garages to even on a cargo ship.

This inferno that had potential to kill is just not something one would expect while riding the TTC subway. Or at least to have one start this way.

It did happen at 3 p.m. New Years Eve on a train at Yonge-Sheppard Station. It seems a rider brought his e-bike down below and was on the train when something terrifying happened. The bike caught fire and the flames and smoke had potential to affect the whole open-concept, six-car train.


Toronto Fire to the rescue. TTC staff also did a nice job of clearing the train while firefighters put out this pesky fire that had flames that lit a lot of the car up. The owner of the bike was hurt and taken to hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

Toronto Fire Services assess the mess left behind after an e-bike battery fire on TTC subway on New Years Eve
Toronto Fire Services assess the mess left behind after an e-bike battery fire on TTC subway on New Years Eve
But this is one of those times where the story is not just what happened but what could have happened and what are authorities going to do to make sure nothing like this happens again.

Ban e-bikes from riding on the subway? That’s one thing that could be considered. Or ban them from sidewalks? How about licensing these things and making those who ride them pass a safety course and have insurance. Don’t forget to consider having rules on where they are stored.

There were many complaints in 2023 of people on e-bikes blowing by pedestrians on sidewalks that some believe should lead to licencing and insurance requirements to operate them
There were many complaints in 2023 of people on e-bikes blowing by pedestrians on sidewalks that some believe should lead to licensing and insurance requirements to operate them.
Something has to happen. Not every e-bike rider, or owner, is irresponsible but some don’t follow the rules. In many cases, these bikes are a menace. The main complaint comes from older people or families with young children walking on sidewalks or on paths in parks. These bikes with large tires and often disguised drivers who look like they are from a Mad Max movie sneak up behind people who often duck out of the way and twist their back or even fall.


The e-bikes are so quiet, you can’t hear them until they are past you.



By the time an obscenity is out of the pedestrian’s mouth in protest, these riders speed off with no way of being caught, let alone ticketed. Some of them seem to revel in it — even offering a middle finger as they speed by. There is no licence to grab and no Highway Traffic Act rules that seem to apply to them.

But the bigger problem, perhaps, is in some cases the lithium-ion batteries can generate so much heat that when they blow, they blow wildly. In Toronto in 2023, there were dozens of fires as a result of e-bike batteries overheating and in many cases they put people in hospital. One was at a Yonge St. condo apartment in which two people were taken to hospital with smoke inhalation. An industrial safety source told me that when these e-batteries on bikes or scooters erupt, watch out because no other item in a house will burn as ferociously so quickly as they do.


“Everything around that bike will be destroyed,” said the insider.

The pictures of the bike on the TTC show that. The charred remains made the subway car look like a fireplace the morning after a night of burning logs.

Toronto Fire has been warning about this issue. This is not new for them.

“The fire is rapid. It’s not minutes, it’s seconds and at that point, the hot gas discharged encompasses the entire room. You will not survive that environment,” Toronto Fire Deputy Chief Larry Cocco old CITY-TV News this year.

“The devices that are manufactured correctly and maintained correctly, we’re not seeing the problem. What we’re seeing is when the devices are not cared for properly or used properly. When the devices are not cared for properly or used properly, altering the battery is going to guarantee you a failure.”


The Toronto Condo News also was talking about this for all of 2023. It seems part of the issue centres around aftermarket adjustments to scooters and the use of not-up to-appropriate-grade batteries or charging methods. Whatever is needed to be done to ensure the best safety practices for these batteries and bikes and scooters must be done before the close calls become a catastrophe. The possibility of what that could look like was on full display on the subway on the last day of the year.

Toronto Police tell the Sun the “fire was not suspicious, and was an issue with the battery.” The potential for carnage, though, was off the charts. The people who make the laws spend a lot of time on things that don’t matter like changing the names of things or cancelling leaders from the past. What they should be doing is focusing on what is real and potentially dangerous.


E-bikes and scooters can certainly be a great mode of transportation that are affordable and there is room for them out there somehow. But there should be some rules and regulations users need to follow to keep themselves and everybody else safe. Storing them is clearly a problem if one of these batteries decides to light up.

Just look at the videos and pictures of this one on the subway and it is clear how bad an outcome could have occurred.

jwarmington@postmedia.com

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1741665409407893984

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1741664507389149415

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1741663466945978468

WARMINGTON: What looked like a bomb blast on TTC subway was actually an e-bike battery

That wasn't a bomb that went off on a TTC subway car on New Year's Eve in Toronto. It just looked like it.

torontosun.com